-- Know Your Rights; Warranty, and How To Protect It! -- - Page 2

2manytrucks · 11-19-2005, 11:19 PM

And arbitration is designed to benefit the business, not the consumer. More times than not, the arbitrator sides with the business.

jgomez44 · 11-21-2005, 07:04 AM

I want to be perfectly clear on this topic. That previous 2 statements are 100% false. Please remember the reason you would take your vehicle to a different repair facility is because you were unsuccessful in negotiating with the manufacturer through their dealership in the first place. Clearly you have no incentive to do business with them. Manufacturers claim they wont pay publicly, but if the courts or arbitration panel order them to, trust me they do. Furthermore manufacturers are bound by the rulings of both governing bodies and cannot appeal a decision. However, the consumer can. I know this because I received more than 18k in my case and know of 2 others who also received reimbursement for their expenses including all repairs performed by unapproved facilities. ( More Scare Tactics)

This whole topic requires you to think "Big Picture". Paid warranty claims not only cost the manufacturer $$$. But when they pay those claims they also acknowledge a defect which must be reported to the NHTSA. That info can later be subpoenaed and used against them in future cases. Many times a manufacturers objective is to wear down the consumer. Fact is you need to have money to hire a competent attorney should you elect to take them to court. Very few attorneys take these cases on a contingency. Remember this is not a "lemon law case" ( there you are eligible for atty fees, filing costs,& PUNITIVE DAMAGES. The BIG $$$$) Arbitration only permits you to recover directly related costs (Cost of repairs, rental car, insurance, payments, etc). Nearly every case that is filed to go to trial gets settled (assuming your claim is genuinely valid) The reason is the manufacturer can ill afford to have case precedence set against them. Therefore if they think there is any chance of them losing they will offer a settlement. Of course it will be for a lot of dough and your atty will advise you to take it because he wants to get paid too. If you accept their settlement as everyone does, you must sign a disclosure statement agreeing not to discuss the facts of the case or settlement. If you breech that agreement and that info helped to establish precedence you could be on the hook for a portion of the companys overall financial exposure and related legal costs, and that is why you do not hear about the cases won. Common sense makes us ask ourselves why would they let it go that far, if they were just going to ultimately settle. Simple math! The cost to pay a few larger settlements is still substantially cheaper than settling alot of little ones.

I mean no disrespect by this statement to the gentleman who wrote the previous post, but I sincerely doubt the auto manufacturer he is employed by discusses or consults with him either before or after deciding to settle or litigate specific cases.

As for the statement regarding likelihood or percentage of time the arbitrator rules for the business. I submit the following proof that arbitration through the dispute settlement board, often works for those who use it (By the way, the arbitrator for that process is actually the BBB Auto Line) and the hearing usually takes place at your local BBB office, and typically the manufacturer merely submits there response to your allegations in writing to the Arbitrator. They can attend but most often do not. You on the other hand get to appear in person. You can find on the web the results of the annual accounting of each dispute resolution boards results. They must meet a standard on an annual basis. In short the numbers suggest that for all the claims that are filed against a manufacturer decisions for either the consumer or manufacturer are nearly evenly split @ 50% being awarded to the consumer and the other 50% of awards or favorable decisions going in favor of the manufacturer. But remember that statistic takes into consideration even the most bizarre and outlandish claims against a manufacturer.

Newman · 10-09-2007, 05:50 PM

As a ford tech and engine specialist I see many modified cars and trucks coming in with warranty claims. There are some other factors here that determine if you get warranty and it boils down to the particular dealer and their warranty rate in fords eyes. If a dealer is circling the drain of a full blown warranty audit you are SOL if you modify your vehicle, its up to the dealers discretion and you are on the losing end. In my case our dealer has a great reputation with ford and we would warranty something that other dealers might not touch. If a first time customer came in and had mods for more boost with a broken piston they would kindly be told to have a nice day by the manager, OTOH a regular customer that bought the vehicle from us would get different treatment, its not fair but its life. I guess if one brought in something they thought was warranty even with mods done its up to them if they want to go through the trouble and financial burden to fight the dealer and ford motor company but it would be an uphill battle with a slim (but not impossible) chance of winning.

HarleyDammitt · 10-09-2007, 06:02 PM

Wow! this is an OLd thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

If a dealer is circling the drain of a full blown warranty audit you are SOL if you modify your vehicle, its up to the dealers discretion and you are on the losing end.

Not according to the LAW. If your dealer wants to bend the rules everything is cool until they get caught. They may NEVER get caught, but the penalties are quite hefty in the event they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

If a first time customer came in and had mods for more boost with a broken piston they would kindly be told to have a nice day by the manager,

Quite RIGHTLY so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

OTOH a regular customer that bought the vehicle from us would get different treatment, its not fair but its life.

This would be more of a dealership/ford trust issue... Sounds like your dealership favors regular customers. While not illegal, I'm not real sure I'm comfortable with the ethics. All customers SHOULD be treated the same, to reduce warranty costs across the board. But I must admit, that if i were a regular customer, I would expect better than average treatment. It's not fair, I'm a hypocrit, but it's llife!

Newman · 10-09-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyDammitt

Wow! this is an OLd thread!

!

but its new to me! I agree that dealers bend the rules, I cant change that...if you pop your engine under warranty bring it to me, ill help you out

Hoffmann · 10-09-2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

If a first time customer came in and had mods for more boost with a broken piston they would kindly be told to have a nice day by the manager, OTOH a regular customer that bought the vehicle from us would get different treatment, its not fair but its life.

Very similar situation happened to me,after a trip to West Verginia,my tranny blew up,so I wanted to drop at the dealer close to my home,which is not the one I bought the truck,they started giving me a hard time because I had a tranny gauge connected to the harness

so I had to say good bye and have a good life to them,went back to the original dealer (where I bought the truck from) got it replaced for a brand new one,not refurbished

As for the one close to my home,they keep calling me to offer everything,and I have to hang up all the time,even after a survey which I said horrors about their costumer service

HarleyDammitt · 10-10-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

if you pop your engine under warranty bring it to me, ill help you out

COOL!!!.... no... wait... Canada is quite a ways to drive from Texas.... with a "popped" engine... :P

And... I don't own the Harley truck anymore....

Gas was killing me, since my girlfriend lives about 100 miles away... So, I traded in for an SRT4. The truck was faster and more comfy though...

Harley#356 · 10-12-2007, 06:33 AM

a chick car

haha what color did you get? my gf's got a white skittle car lol

HarleyDammitt · 10-12-2007, 03:20 PM

Chick car huh....

Yeah, I got the "vanilla" skittle too...

Did you ever get blown Josh?

Harley#356 · 10-12-2007, 09:01 PM

lol blown as in this...

http://www.lightningrodder.com/galle...10063/cp10.jpg

or blown as in...from the driver of this....

http://www.lightningrodder.com/galle...buttface08.jpg

hahaha

she's got a few mods on there so far. HKS BOV, Ultimate Racing hard pipes, Forget what brand intake, 15% tint, LED tails, short throw shifter, and of course *pink* calipers and turbo sticker

haha

Tazz · 10-12-2007, 09:19 PM

Well
HarleyDammit
Bottom line the dealer and Ford knows they have the $$ and time on there side most peeps don't have that much time or the $$ to fight it. How would you like to be making payments on a vehicle you cant drive for over a year maybe longer and spending money for lawyer fees and other fees. May not be fair but true ask one of our members hear that going through the same issue Wheels issue but has not backed down and IIRC has taken almost a year with nothing resolved. At least he can still drive the truck.
Bottom line if you mod just minor like filter just put the stock one back on and take in. If it's something more then Its a personel moral thing on your part like if you have a pulley and tune and blow your motor then you decide what your comfortable with. If that means maybe your mods caused the probelm and you feel ok with tring to beat the system then go ahead but don't get mad if they don't accomodate you since no one put a gun to your head to mod. For me if something went wrong I would just suck it up would I be upset YES but would I blame Ford or anyone else NO I chose to do the mod and except the respnsibility of that mod no matter who save. unsave it was.
Tazz

Tazz

HarleyDammitt · 10-15-2007, 09:47 AM

Josh-

Both rides are lookin' sweet!

Now I know when I see a 2001 around Big D to be prepared.

My skittle has stage 1, maroon calipers, gunmetal rims, and short throw shifter. Here's a pic of the calipers/rims...

(Later I marooned the "hat" portion of the disc too...)

When I installed the short throw, I HAD to get SOMETHING HD in there so I did this...

(A slightly modified HD grip....)

Tazz-

I know what you are saying... I just don't like others thinking there is NO option, and just giving up. Sometimes the dealer will deny warranty on issues not even related to the mod.

I feel the same way... I'm ready to put up the $$$ if it's mod related, but I will at least TRY to fight if it's not mod related. Soemtimes the dealer gives in if you push just a little....

Harley#356 · 10-15-2007, 10:28 AM

rims look sweet! you do that with duplicolor gunmetal rim paint? I'm trying to convince my g/f to paint her wheels since everything else on the car is white with black/dark accents (black tails, etc.)

have you popped the shifter knob off yet shifting into second?

what a great design by dodge on that one

haha

fepony · 10-15-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley#356

have you popped the shifter knob off yet shifting into second?

what a great design by dodge on that one

haha

I did on my infamous "test drive" that led to my court appearance for "criminal mischief".

HarleyDammitt · 10-15-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

have you popped the shifter knob off yet shifting into second?

YUP! That's what led me to the short throw/HD grip combo.... While driving "aggressively" during a local rally, I popped it off... it hit the back seat, and bounced toward the windshield... by some miracle I grabbed it before it hit, and put it back on to hit 3rd right in stride.

My "navigator" was laughing his *** off!!

Fe-

Was the criminal mischief in an SRT4, or your HD?

11-21-2005, 07:04 AM	#17 (permalink)
jgomez44 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 22 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Dont Be Confused I want to be perfectly clear on this topic. That previous 2 statements are 100% false. Please remember the reason you would take your vehicle to a different repair facility is because you were unsuccessful in negotiating with the manufacturer through their dealership in the first place. Clearly you have no incentive to do business with them. Manufacturers claim they wont pay publicly, but if the courts or arbitration panel order them to, trust me they do. Furthermore manufacturers are bound by the rulings of both governing bodies and cannot appeal a decision. However, the consumer can. I know this because I received more than 18k in my case and know of 2 others who also received reimbursement for their expenses including all repairs performed by unapproved facilities. ( More Scare Tactics) This whole topic requires you to think "Big Picture". Paid warranty claims not only cost the manufacturer $$$. But when they pay those claims they also acknowledge a defect which must be reported to the NHTSA. That info can later be subpoenaed and used against them in future cases. Many times a manufacturers objective is to wear down the consumer. Fact is you need to have money to hire a competent attorney should you elect to take them to court. Very few attorneys take these cases on a contingency. Remember this is not a "lemon law case" ( there you are eligible for atty fees, filing costs,& PUNITIVE DAMAGES. The BIG $$$$) Arbitration only permits you to recover directly related costs (Cost of repairs, rental car, insurance, payments, etc). Nearly every case that is filed to go to trial gets settled (assuming your claim is genuinely valid) The reason is the manufacturer can ill afford to have case precedence set against them. Therefore if they think there is any chance of them losing they will offer a settlement. Of course it will be for a lot of dough and your atty will advise you to take it because he wants to get paid too. If you accept their settlement as everyone does, you must sign a disclosure statement agreeing not to discuss the facts of the case or settlement. If you breech that agreement and that info helped to establish precedence you could be on the hook for a portion of the companys overall financial exposure and related legal costs, and that is why you do not hear about the cases won. Common sense makes us ask ourselves why would they let it go that far, if they were just going to ultimately settle. Simple math! The cost to pay a few larger settlements is still substantially cheaper than settling alot of little ones. I mean no disrespect by this statement to the gentleman who wrote the previous post, but I sincerely doubt the auto manufacturer he is employed by discusses or consults with him either before or after deciding to settle or litigate specific cases. As for the statement regarding likelihood or percentage of time the arbitrator rules for the business. I submit the following proof that arbitration through the dispute settlement board, often works for those who use it (By the way, the arbitrator for that process is actually the BBB Auto Line) and the hearing usually takes place at your local BBB office, and typically the manufacturer merely submits there response to your allegations in writing to the Arbitrator. They can attend but most often do not. You on the other hand get to appear in person. You can find on the web the results of the annual accounting of each dispute resolution boards results. They must meet a standard on an annual basis. In short the numbers suggest that for all the claims that are filed against a manufacturer decisions for either the consumer or manufacturer are nearly evenly split @ 50% being awarded to the consumer and the other 50% of awards or favorable decisions going in favor of the manufacturer. But remember that statistic takes into consideration even the most bizarre and outlandish claims against a manufacturer. Last edited by jgomez44; 11-21-2005 at 07:10 AM.

10-12-2007, 09:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
Tazz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: KS Posts: 3,501 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Well HarleyDammit Bottom line the dealer and Ford knows they have the $$ and time on there side most peeps don't have that much time or the $$ to fight it. How would you like to be making payments on a vehicle you cant drive for over a year maybe longer and spending money for lawyer fees and other fees. May not be fair but true ask one of our members hear that going through the same issue Wheels issue but has not backed down and IIRC has taken almost a year with nothing resolved. At least he can still drive the truck. Bottom line if you mod just minor like filter just put the stock one back on and take in. If it's something more then Its a personel moral thing on your part like if you have a pulley and tune and blow your motor then you decide what your comfortable with. If that means maybe your mods caused the probelm and you feel ok with tring to beat the system then go ahead but don't get mad if they don't accomodate you since no one put a gun to your head to mod. For me if something went wrong I would just suck it up would I be upset YES but would I blame Ford or anyone else NO I chose to do the mod and except the respnsibility of that mod no matter who save. unsave it was. Tazz Tazz Last edited by Tazz; 10-12-2007 at 09:27 PM.

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11-19-2005, 11:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
2manytrucks Man this is expensive!!! Paid Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 3,355 NHTOC member #: 315 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	And arbitration is designed to benefit the business, not the consumer. More times than not, the arbitrator sides with the business.

10-09-2007, 05:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
Newman Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: toronto canada Posts: 172 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	As a ford tech and engine specialist I see many modified cars and trucks coming in with warranty claims. There are some other factors here that determine if you get warranty and it boils down to the particular dealer and their warranty rate in fords eyes. If a dealer is circling the drain of a full blown warranty audit you are SOL if you modify your vehicle, its up to the dealers discretion and you are on the losing end. In my case our dealer has a great reputation with ford and we would warranty something that other dealers might not touch. If a first time customer came in and had mods for more boost with a broken piston they would kindly be told to have a nice day by the manager, OTOH a regular customer that bought the vehicle from us would get different treatment, its not fair but its life. I guess if one brought in something they thought was warranty even with mods done its up to them if they want to go through the trouble and financial burden to fight the dealer and ford motor company but it would be an uphill battle with a slim (but not impossible) chance of winning.

10-12-2007, 06:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
Harley#356 Worlds Fastest HD F150!!! Paid Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Week-Philly; Weekend-Souf Jerz Posts: 23,524 NHTOC member #: 3 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	a chick car haha what color did you get? my gf's got a white skittle car lol

10-12-2007, 03:20 PM	#24 (permalink)
HarleyDammitt Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bryan, Texas Posts: 236 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Chick car huh.... Yeah, I got the "vanilla" skittle too... Did you ever get blown Josh?

10-12-2007, 09:01 PM	#25 (permalink)
Harley#356 Worlds Fastest HD F150!!! Paid Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Week-Philly; Weekend-Souf Jerz Posts: 23,524 NHTOC member #: 3 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	lol blown as in this... http://www.lightningrodder.com/galle...10063/cp10.jpg or blown as in...from the driver of this.... http://www.lightningrodder.com/galle...buttface08.jpg hahaha she's got a few mods on there so far. HKS BOV, Ultimate Racing hard pipes, Forget what brand intake, 15% tint, LED tails, short throw shifter, and of course pink calipers and turbo sticker haha

10-15-2007, 09:47 AM	#27 (permalink)
HarleyDammitt Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bryan, Texas Posts: 236 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Josh- Both rides are lookin' sweet! Now I know when I see a 2001 around Big D to be prepared. My skittle has stage 1, maroon calipers, gunmetal rims, and short throw shifter. Here's a pic of the calipers/rims... (Later I marooned the "hat" portion of the disc too...) When I installed the short throw, I HAD to get SOMETHING HD in there so I did this... (A slightly modified HD grip....) Tazz- I know what you are saying... I just don't like others thinking there is NO option, and just giving up. Sometimes the dealer will deny warranty on issues not even related to the mod. I feel the same way... I'm ready to put up the $$$ if it's mod related, but I will at least TRY to fight if it's not mod related. Soemtimes the dealer gives in if you push just a little....

10-15-2007, 10:28 AM	#28 (permalink)
Harley#356 Worlds Fastest HD F150!!! Paid Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Week-Philly; Weekend-Souf Jerz Posts: 23,524 NHTOC member #: 3 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	rims look sweet! you do that with duplicolor gunmetal rim paint? I'm trying to convince my g/f to paint her wheels since everything else on the car is white with black/dark accents (black tails, etc.) have you popped the shifter knob off yet shifting into second? what a great design by dodge on that one haha