which mod is best at keeping oil from the intercooler?? - Page 2

Speedin Bob · 04-01-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Madferraristi
Go with an L&S and be done with it!

BINGO!

Be careful reaching for that beverage Dbl G! Stitch-o-rama!!

kromdom · 04-01-2005, 11:15 AM

in case you have not seen this:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...hreadid=192078

So the debate continues: do we need a way to trap the oil or not?? Anyone know any FORD engineers who may be willing to make a statement OFF THE RECORD about this topic (without disclosing his identity of course)

Dbl G · 04-01-2005, 11:35 AM

I hadn't installed mine yet, I think the verdict is out for a while.....

kromdom · 10-28-2005, 06:38 AM

and then there is one more:
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/lightsniper1.htm

Dbl G · 10-28-2005, 09:01 AM

Hmmm, now that is cost effective???

A better mouse (oil catch can) trap?

bgstew6 · 10-28-2005, 10:39 AM

yeah,

The rpm outlet Doubel PVC mod???

I will stick iwth my Better Mousetrap, AMW Sep!!

Madferraristi · 10-28-2005, 08:54 PM

I still think the L&S is far and away the most effective.

Vince · 10-29-2005, 12:37 AM

THANKS for your support.
My kit has passed the test of time, what a great feeling!

IF you go to page 7 on the link. I give a pretty detailed description of what is going on.
Sould answer most questions anyone could have.

Vince

Madferraristi · 10-29-2005, 10:25 AM

Page 7 ????????

Vince · 10-29-2005, 11:22 PM

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but there are still some points that have not been covered.
I do believe that the lower hose is a bypass hose to “first” remove collected oil (during boost) that is known to accumulate in the lower intake. Second, I believe that knowing oil will be pulled through the pcv, and even “more” under boost, the bypass relieves the accelerated suction through the pcv and allows venting through the driver’s cover via the intake boot which is also a vacuum source under WOT. This would explain oil in the intake boot. If you had to choose the lesser evil, then this is the way to do it considering a pcv system is required and I understand why Ford did it this way.
I say this because of the testing I have done.
First, with the stock pcv setup, I measured the oil collected at the upper plenum during a specific drive cycle. Second, performing the same drive cycle, I capped off the bypass hose and found that the oil collected this time more than doubled. To confirm more suspicions, I tested the direction of airflow entering/exiting the driver’s valve cover for both tests. Airflow through the tube on the driver’s cover (with the stock routing) under boost was exiting the valve cover and entering the intake boot as suspected. When I disconnected the bypass, (thereby allowing more air to be pulled through the pcv lines under boost), airflow in the tube reversed and was drawn back into the engine as it should.
Crankcase evacuation is a good thing. From the simple old school exhaust evac systems to the advanced vacuum pump setups on race engines, people are doing this for specific reasons (and have been for a very long time), and these reasons can be discussed on another thread.
To stay on the topic, I believe that this crankcase evacuation under WOT is beneficial and I wanted to get it working properly.
Most know I have an oil separator kit that allows this to happen and at the same time the oil that is trapped is returned to the engine where it belongs. I take advantage of the simple fact that we CAN have crankcase evacuation at ALL times provided that we have a solution for trapping the additional oil that will be pulled through the system because of the bypass elimination. I found that the popular hardware store separator kit does in fact work to a point. However, the first negative thing is the fact that the bottle filled up to the ½ mark every 2 days and needed to be emptied on a regular basis. Once the level gets to the ½ mark, the separator becomes ineffective and does not trap any more oil. Oil just passes through as normal. When I disconnected the lower bypass hose to allow the additional airflow and crankcase evacuation, the canister filled up every day!
This is where my filter comes into play. No maintenance. It drains itself and is specifically designed for oil.
Now, my kit does allow very small amounts of oil to pass through. It’s impossible to totally purify the air, but my filter does an excellent job of trapping the mass amounts of oil being drawn up. Yes, I have collected this oil during numerous planned drive cycles, and the amount allowed through is excitingly minimal. I have also checked the direction of airflow on the driver’s valve cover, and confirmed that at “ALL” times there is in fact crankcase evacuation with my kit.
Mission accomplished!
I have in fact tried the double breather setup that RED92 endorses. Yes, he is correct that this is the only way to totally eliminate oil in the intake track. Well obviously, if you disconnect the source, problem solved. It just goes back to the fact that racers have incorporated crankcase evac systems for years. Why would you want to do away with this?
Doing the breather setup, the first thing I noticed is that after a fresh oil change, the oil discolors at a faster rate. I realize we all change our oil religiously, but personally I did not want this additional contamination knowing that I could do something about it. Venting and evacuating are 2 different things. On my truck, the filters did in fact accumulate oil and started to leak oil out. Although it was minimal, it was expected, and it goes back to what is acceptable to you.
We all agree that the use of a breather by itself for the oil cap, with no modification to the driver’s side cover, creates an unmetered air situation. You can tune around it, but again, with the accumulation of oil in the filter, this was not satisfactory to me.
Somewhere throughout this whole process, I removed the valve covers, inspected and MODIFIED the baffles, and in addition built external baffles. This was not effective either.
For fun, remove the pcv from the passenger valve cover, then remove the oil cap, and look down into the engine. You will be amazed by the amount of oil vapors that start to form in just a few minutes and you will have a better understanding of what we are trying to control. The camshaft/valvetrain are also doing a great job of splashing things around.
I did not try the dime mod or other kits that block off the upper plenum, mainly because of what I wanted to accomplish. Remember I “WANT” crankcase evacuation, especially under boost when blowby is at its highest levels. Engine builders will agree that this is needed and does help ring seal.
For the supercharger, oil is not needed to lube the rotors. These types of pumps are commonly used for many different applications, including your everyday carpet cleaning vans. The idea of pcv oil actually entering and lubing the rear bearings is just not true. Most rotor contamination occurs when servicing your air filter. Notice the larger deposits around the edge of the filter. When you remove and install the filter make sure you clean the outer edges real well. If not, you’ll disturb the particles and allow them to be pulled right in around the sides of the filter unknowingly.
Sorry for the long post. If you stuck with me, I hope I have clarified a few things.
Vince

__________________

2002GreyHD150 · 10-30-2005, 08:01 AM

I guess I need to just break down & pull my blower....

Open breather on my engine since May 2003 (truck 3 months old at the time). Have had the truck dyno'ed several times. A/F has always been fine & always right wherre it is supposed to be. never a check light, never a stumble, bobble or hesitation. Normal oil changes, never any appreciable oil consumption or loss...

So if time allows this week I will try to get my blower off the engine & take pics as soon as I crack it open.

Maybe I shoudl do this @ the Texas GTG & have a mass unveiling? LOL

Rob W

2002GreyHD150 · 02-14-2006, 09:49 AM

this REALLY needs to be a Sticky!!!

Josh!!! Sticky this PLEASE

Rob W

Harley#356 · 02-14-2006, 11:53 AM

STICKIFIED! and moved to the FAQ forum since this comes up alllll the time, and we got the FAQ forum and it hasnt really been used correctly, so might as well start somehwere!

tpr103 · 10-20-2007, 11:26 PM

L&S FTMFW!!!! when i did my s/c swap brand new upper setup, and mostly all the parts! put maybe 100-200 miles before i got my seperator in the mail. just pulled the blower today after easily 20k and the i/c looked almost new. just ask josh!

Vince · 10-21-2007, 08:25 PM

Sweet,

20k and rolling.

NO Other kit will perform like the L&S.

ENJOY!

Vince

04-01-2005, 11:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
kromdom #4954, 12APR01 Paid Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,284 NHTOC member #: 200 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	and the plot thickens in case you have not seen this: http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...hreadid=192078 So the debate continues: do we need a way to trap the oil or not?? Anyone know any FORD engineers who may be willing to make a statement OFF THE RECORD about this topic (without disclosing his identity of course)

10-28-2005, 09:01 AM	#20 (permalink)
Dbl G Guest Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 0 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Hmmm, now that is cost effective??? A better mouse (oil catch can) trap? Last edited by Dbl G; 12-19-2006 at 08:36 AM.

10-28-2005, 08:54 PM	#22 (permalink)
Madferraristi 32V SC 5.4L #001 Paid Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,470 NHTOC member #: 238 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	I still think the L&S is far and away the most effective. __________________ Click here to visit MAD's site. Last edited by Madferraristi; 10-28-2005 at 08:57 PM.

10-29-2005, 12:37 AM	#23 (permalink)
Vince Supporting Vendor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 441 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	THANKS for your support. My kit has passed the test of time, what a great feeling! IF you go to page 7 on the link. I give a pretty detailed description of what is going on. Sould answer most questions anyone could have. Vince __________________ Click HERE to Visit L&S Automotive Website L&S Automotive Oil Separator kits SCT tuner & performance transmissions 02 DSG H.D. 12.99 @104.50 Weighed in @ 5440 lbs.

10-29-2005, 10:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
Madferraristi 32V SC 5.4L #001 Paid Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,470 NHTOC member #: 238 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Page 7 ???????? __________________ Click here to visit MAD's site.



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04-01-2005, 11:35 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dbl G Guest Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 0 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	I hadn't installed mine yet, I think the verdict is out for a while.....

10-28-2005, 06:38 AM	#19 (permalink)
kromdom #4954, 12APR01 Paid Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,284 NHTOC member #: 200 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	and then there is one more: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/lightsniper1.htm

10-28-2005, 10:39 AM	#21 (permalink)
bgstew6 ResFirma Mitescere Nescit Paid Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 17,810 NHTOC member #: 277 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	yeah, The rpm outlet Doubel PVC mod??? I will stick iwth my Better Mousetrap, AMW Sep!!

10-29-2005, 11:22 PM	#25 (permalink)
Vince Supporting Vendor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 441 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	I know this topic has been beaten to death, but there are still some points that have not been covered. I do believe that the lower hose is a bypass hose to “first” remove collected oil (during boost) that is known to accumulate in the lower intake. Second, I believe that knowing oil will be pulled through the pcv, and even “more” under boost, the bypass relieves the accelerated suction through the pcv and allows venting through the driver’s cover via the intake boot which is also a vacuum source under WOT. This would explain oil in the intake boot. If you had to choose the lesser evil, then this is the way to do it considering a pcv system is required and I understand why Ford did it this way. I say this because of the testing I have done. First, with the stock pcv setup, I measured the oil collected at the upper plenum during a specific drive cycle. Second, performing the same drive cycle, I capped off the bypass hose and found that the oil collected this time more than doubled. To confirm more suspicions, I tested the direction of airflow entering/exiting the driver’s valve cover for both tests. Airflow through the tube on the driver’s cover (with the stock routing) under boost was exiting the valve cover and entering the intake boot as suspected. When I disconnected the bypass, (thereby allowing more air to be pulled through the pcv lines under boost), airflow in the tube reversed and was drawn back into the engine as it should. Crankcase evacuation is a good thing. From the simple old school exhaust evac systems to the advanced vacuum pump setups on race engines, people are doing this for specific reasons (and have been for a very long time), and these reasons can be discussed on another thread. To stay on the topic, I believe that this crankcase evacuation under WOT is beneficial and I wanted to get it working properly. Most know I have an oil separator kit that allows this to happen and at the same time the oil that is trapped is returned to the engine where it belongs. I take advantage of the simple fact that we CAN have crankcase evacuation at ALL times provided that we have a solution for trapping the additional oil that will be pulled through the system because of the bypass elimination. I found that the popular hardware store separator kit does in fact work to a point. However, the first negative thing is the fact that the bottle filled up to the ½ mark every 2 days and needed to be emptied on a regular basis. Once the level gets to the ½ mark, the separator becomes ineffective and does not trap any more oil. Oil just passes through as normal. When I disconnected the lower bypass hose to allow the additional airflow and crankcase evacuation, the canister filled up every day! This is where my filter comes into play. No maintenance. It drains itself and is specifically designed for oil. Now, my kit does allow very small amounts of oil to pass through. It’s impossible to totally purify the air, but my filter does an excellent job of trapping the mass amounts of oil being drawn up. Yes, I have collected this oil during numerous planned drive cycles, and the amount allowed through is excitingly minimal. I have also checked the direction of airflow on the driver’s valve cover, and confirmed that at “ALL” times there is in fact crankcase evacuation with my kit. Mission accomplished! I have in fact tried the double breather setup that RED92 endorses. Yes, he is correct that this is the only way to totally eliminate oil in the intake track. Well obviously, if you disconnect the source, problem solved. It just goes back to the fact that racers have incorporated crankcase evac systems for years. Why would you want to do away with this? Doing the breather setup, the first thing I noticed is that after a fresh oil change, the oil discolors at a faster rate. I realize we all change our oil religiously, but personally I did not want this additional contamination knowing that I could do something about it. Venting and evacuating are 2 different things. On my truck, the filters did in fact accumulate oil and started to leak oil out. Although it was minimal, it was expected, and it goes back to what is acceptable to you. We all agree that the use of a breather by itself for the oil cap, with no modification to the driver’s side cover, creates an unmetered air situation. You can tune around it, but again, with the accumulation of oil in the filter, this was not satisfactory to me. Somewhere throughout this whole process, I removed the valve covers, inspected and MODIFIED the baffles, and in addition built external baffles. This was not effective either. For fun, remove the pcv from the passenger valve cover, then remove the oil cap, and look down into the engine. You will be amazed by the amount of oil vapors that start to form in just a few minutes and you will have a better understanding of what we are trying to control. The camshaft/valvetrain are also doing a great job of splashing things around. I did not try the dime mod or other kits that block off the upper plenum, mainly because of what I wanted to accomplish. Remember I “WANT” crankcase evacuation, especially under boost when blowby is at its highest levels. Engine builders will agree that this is needed and does help ring seal. For the supercharger, oil is not needed to lube the rotors. These types of pumps are commonly used for many different applications, including your everyday carpet cleaning vans. The idea of pcv oil actually entering and lubing the rear bearings is just not true. Most rotor contamination occurs when servicing your air filter. Notice the larger deposits around the edge of the filter. When you remove and install the filter make sure you clean the outer edges real well. If not, you’ll disturb the particles and allow them to be pulled right in around the sides of the filter unknowingly. Sorry for the long post. If you stuck with me, I hope I have clarified a few things. Vince __________________ __________________ Click HERE to Visit L&S Automotive Website L&S Automotive Oil Separator kits SCT tuner & performance transmissions 02 DSG H.D. 12.99 @104.50 Weighed in @ 5440 lbs.

10-30-2005, 08:01 AM	#26 (permalink)
2002GreyHD150 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 7,237 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	I guess I need to just break down & pull my blower.... Open breather on my engine since May 2003 (truck 3 months old at the time). Have had the truck dyno'ed several times. A/F has always been fine & always right wherre it is supposed to be. never a check light, never a stumble, bobble or hesitation. Normal oil changes, never any appreciable oil consumption or loss... So if time allows this week I will try to get my blower off the engine & take pics as soon as I crack it open. Maybe I shoudl do this @ the Texas GTG & have a mass unveiling? LOL Rob W

02-14-2006, 09:49 AM	#27 (permalink)
2002GreyHD150 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 7,237 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	this REALLY needs to be a Sticky!!! Josh!!! Sticky this PLEASE Rob W

02-14-2006, 11:53 AM	#28 (permalink)
Harley#356 Worlds Fastest HD F150!!! Paid Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Week-Philly; Weekend-Souf Jerz Posts: 23,531 NHTOC member #: 3 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	STICKIFIED! and moved to the FAQ forum since this comes up alllll the time, and we got the FAQ forum and it hasnt really been used correctly, so might as well start somehwere!

10-20-2007, 11:26 PM	#29 (permalink)
tpr103 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: nj Posts: 1,739 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	L&S FTMFW!!!! when i did my s/c swap brand new upper setup, and mostly all the parts! put maybe 100-200 miles before i got my seperator in the mail. just pulled the blower today after easily 20k and the i/c looked almost new. just ask josh!

10-21-2007, 08:25 PM	#30 (permalink)
Vince Supporting Vendor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 441 View this user's gallery iTrader: 0 / 0%	Sweet, 20k and rolling. NO Other kit will perform like the L&S. ENJOY! Vince

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