Merlin.....I need some tips!

[Harley#356]

Hey Merlin,

Although many will think I"m a detailing guru, I'm a novice in comparison to your expertise! I've got a black '99 Lightning I'm cleaning up for a flip, and the paint needs some TLC. When I got the truck it was literally FLAT black. It's been at least 2 years since it was washed, and who knows how long since it was waxed. Here's what I did so far....

1. Dawn Wash
2. Zaino Claybar
3. Meguiars Ultimate Compound w/ yellow pad on the DA on speed 6
4. Meguiars Ultimate Polish w/ a yellow pad on the DA on speed 5
5. Meguiars Ultimate Wax w/ a tan pad on the DA on speed 5

It's actually looking VERY good, it's 1,000 times better than it was when I started, it's now a deep shiny gloss black! BUT....there's still a lot of swirls and scuffs that were deeper than what my DA with a yellow pad and the Meg products could remove. Since I'm listing this truck up for sale, I don't want to spend endless hours or huge bucks for a perfect flawless finish, it's just not going to happen, but I do want to make it look as mint as possible for the next owner without going crazy. If it were a regular f150 I'd be perfectly happy where it's at now to sell. Since it's a Lightning, I want to go that little extra step.

I guess long story short basically I need some tips and advice for the starting point products for paint correction. Compounds/polishes and pads/speeds. I've got a good assortment of end stage products from the full zaino arsenal, the full meguiars ultimate collection, and black fire wet diamond and midnight sun. Again since it's a flip I wasn't planning on using BFWD on it, but I do want to fix the deeper paint swirls and marks.

I only have tan and yellow meguiars pads. If there was 1 more pad to get to start with, what should I get? And what product should I use to start? Meguiars ultimate compound or polish with a more aggressive pad? Or a more aggressive compound with the same yellow pads? More aggressive compound and more aggressive pad? So many combos my head spins lol.

I also have the Meguiars Microfiber Detail Correction system, and a gallon jug of Meguiars swirl remover (I forget the product # I can look tonight)



Sooooooo, the million dollar question, can you tailor me a "recipe" for using the most of what I already have (whenever possible), and filling in the few blanks with some reasonable recommendations? I don't mind buying a couple new pads or a new bottle or two of product, I just don't want to have to buy another entire cabinet for detailing supplies by the time I'm done shopping LOL

[Merlin]

Ok, here's some Q&A

What were your results after clay?

What DA machine do you have?
What size is your backing plate?
What size are the pads you have?

Have you ever used the Megs MF system?
What Megs MF pad size system did you purchase 5" or 6"?
Is it the 2-cutting, 2-polishing MF discs with the backing plate, D300 and D301 kit?

IIRC The Megs yellow is a polishing pad and the tan is a finishing pad. Is that correct?
I use Lake Country foam pads and IMHO you may need a cutting, polishing and finishing pad.



Depending on your answers...I hope to keep this under $50 for "show car" results and minimal time.

[Harley#356]

1st off, that's an EXCELLENT chart!

Results after clay - paint was very smooth to the touch, full of swirls and scratches and scuffs, but no longer sandpaper feeling

DA Machine - It's the megiars labeled Porter Cable DA. Back before Meguiars had their own DA, when they used to relabel the PCs with a meguiars sticker

Backing Plate - I don't know 100%, I think it's a 4"??? I can measure tonight. My one just disentegrated when I was detailing the L, so I'm down to my last backing plate anyway so not a huge deal if I should change sizes

Pads - I believe they're 6"? Or maybe it's 6.5"? They're meguiars yellow and tan pads. I can measure tonight. Again they're nearing the end of their life and I need to order a new set of pads, so if I should switch size or switch brands, it's not a big deal at all. I'll toss this purchase under "consumables" that I would need regardless of if I wanted to step things up, or just keeping doing the same things.

Megs MF Systm - Yes I did use the Megs MF system on my HD truck last year. The paint on that though is still in extremely good condition for being 13 years old though, so there wasn't a terrible amount of correction compared to this L. I loved how the system worked though! But I somewhat felt like I needed an intermediate step between the D300 and my LSP. I didn't get D301 wax because I used BFWD. I did D300 with the cutting pad, then BFWD with the finishing pad. Should I have done D300 with the cutting pad, D300 with the finishing pad, then my LSP with a foam finishing pad?

Disc size on the MF system, I want to say 5", but they may be 6". I can measure tonight.

And correct, the megs yellow is polishing the megs tan is finishing, although now I don't think they sell the tan pad or it's hard to find, they list a black pad for finishing now.

[Merlin]

OK, based upon your feedback here are my suggestions...

Hardware:
Dual Action Flexible 5 inch Backing Plate
If you have the Megs MF 5" kit there's one in there.

Meguiars DA Microfiber Cutting Discs, 5 inches
If you have the Megs 5" kit they should be in there too.

Lake Country 5 1/2 Inch Flat Pads 6 Pack
2-orange (compound) 2-white (polish) 1-grey (finishing) 1-blue (apply)
If you use the blue for BFWD then only use it for that (store it in a baggie)

Pinnacle Safe Scrub Bug & Tar Pad
This is used to hold against the mf disc and clean it between panels.
Matted down mf fingers loaded with product does not correct paint.
Hold the bug sponge against the mf disc & run the DA for 1-2 seconds.
It's better to clean the mf disc with compressed air if you have it available.
Keeping the mf discs clean is very important! Cleaning it more often helps.

Products:
This is a tough one...I like correcting with the MF cutting discs. It's fast and it works.
Compound:
D300 with the Megs MF cutting discs
Megs UC with Lake Country 5.5" orange flat pads (if needed after mf disc and D300)
Polish:
Megs UP with Lake Country 5.5" white pads (use the Kevin Brown Method with pads)

Process:
With the Megs MF disc use speed 4-5 with D300 and 1" per sec arm speed.
Use "enough" downward pressure so the BP rotates twice +/- per second.
Yes, you want the BP to rotate slowly by pressing down on the machine.
To visualize this I make a sharpie line on the BP so I can watch it rotate.

Correction with mf discs and D300 leaves a light matte finish.
Follow that with the LC 5.5" white flat pad with M205 for clarity and gloss.

If all goes well you should be able to correct the truck with this 2 step process.

If your D300 and the MF disc does not correct the swirls & scratches let me know.
At that point we might have to "kick it up a notch" with product to do correction.
(easily done)

LSP
Then comes the Last Step Product (LSP). After it's polished and clear let me know.
I have a couple of suggestions for LSP's (that you already have) to make it pop.

[Harley#356]

Thanks Merlin!!!

Couple more questions.....I have a brush for foam pads, and I got another with the MF pads for cleaning the pad. And I do have an air compressor. So do I still need the pinnacle safe scrub bug & tar pad? It's cheap so I don't mind getting it if it's useful, but if it's redundant with the brush and air compressor I wasn't sure.

What is the Kevin Brown Method?

And you mentioned 4 pads to buy, orange for Meg UC, white for Meg UP, gray, and blue. You mentioned BFWD with the blue, what would I use the gray for? Meg UW? Z2/Z5?



I may try to do the worst fender with the MF pad and D300 tonight since I have all of that stuff on the shelf, then hit it with my Meg Yellow pad with Meg UC, and my Meg tan pad with Meg UP, just to see how it ends up for a starting assessment. Definitely going to order the new LC pad selection!

[Merlin]

If you have compressed air that's the best mf disc cleaning method. I use the sponge. Do not use a brush on the mf discs.

What is the KBM? I thought you'd never ask...see PM

I use the gray for many things. 2-orange so you have a clean pads, 2-white same reason...grey it's not always pad/product.
For example you could use white with M205 & grey for UC. I like using the grey with Menzerna PO85RD for even more gloss!
Sometimes it's pad product combo, softer pad, more aggressive polish. softer pad. Ultrafine nano polish. You can mix 'em up.

I apply LSP by hand. I prefer Megs UW liquid (exact same as paste) but...the stuff that makes the paste a paste stains trim.
BFWD I apply with a blue 5.5" LC flat pad because (I'm feeling lazy at that time) I use less product and it spreads on thinner.
My suggestion for black might be Zaino Z-2. Do you have Zaino ZFX? Z-2 has a bright shine where BFWD a deep, warm look.
Why a bright shine? In this case you're looking to sell the truck. Most folks don't know paint like we do. Zaino Z-2 is shiny!
Only problem with Z-2 is...if you have fine scratches and swirls then apply Z-2 you will have very shiny scratches and swirls.
Polish/correct the paint before applying Z-2.

BTW - There are some NEW Megs compounds that are amazing M100/M101. I'd go for the Megs mf cutting disc with the D300.
Follow that up directly with your softer polishing pad and Megs Ultimate Polish (skip the UC step) and let us know your results.

I really like M101 with a DA...but that's another thread.

[dragginNCrds]

with all this knowledge.. i need you to come up and buff my truck.. people around here cant seem to get the scrathes out.. and its not even black.. its grey..

[Sport90]

with all this knowledge.. i need you to come up and buff my truck.. people around here cant seem to get the scrathes out.. and its not even black.. its grey..

I know one other DSG and possibly a 3rd in Wilmington that can use a Merlin Magic touch.

[cayman150]

Sounds like you DSG guys need to arange a detail GTG with the Merlin the Magician/Wizard!

Only thing is, I'm not sure he can carry all of his gear on his matching 100th bike and then the truck only carries air in the back!

[Merlin]

with all this knowledge.. i need you to come up and buff my truck.. people around here cant seem to get the scratches out.. and its not even black.. its grey..

Sadly, the swirls on my new truck is what got me into this...(Yepper, it was like that when I bought it).
I was unable to find anyone in my area that knew how to polish paint...so I started learning how to do it.
1000's of hours & dollars later I found...It's an art, science, craft & skill that takes knowledge & experience.
On the other hand, I'm envious of those of you that can turn a wrench. I couldn't if my life depended on it.
I guess we all have our areas of expertise and we share our knowledge. That's what makes us a community.

[Merlin]

...the truck only carries air in the back!

Yepper, I wouldn't want to mess up that beautiful Bedrug.

[Harley#356]

LOL thanks Merlin.....weather was wet and rainy yesterday so I didn't get to give the fender a chance. Today I got sucked in for some OT, and my parents are coming up to go to dinner for my bday, so hopefully at some point this weekend I'll get to test out that combo and report back, get your feedback, and order whatever other products I need to flip this truck!

[Harley#356]

Okay Merlin,

I did the front fender and the tailgate today with your recommended combo and man oh man 100x's improvement! I moved onto the drivers door and there's some deeper marks in the paint that needs a bit more aggressive first step to knock 'em out. It's not bad right now, but the front fender is practically mint now, so the door with some marks is bugging me lol.

I did D300 with the red MF pad, then Meg UP with the black MF pad, then Meg UW with my tan foam pad. The drivers door I just did the first step and didn't bother going further since it needs a stronger 1st step than the D300 with the red MF pad.

So recommendations? A more aggressive product with the red MF pad? Or a more aggressive pad with the D300? Combo of the two? I still need to order that LC pad assortment you recommended so if I need to get a new product I can get it at the same time.

Oh and one more question, what's the best way to clean the MF pads? The compressed air worked great for keeping them from loading up and matting down, but anything special beyond that for cleaning?

Okay and I lied, one more question, recommendation for MF towel source? I'm getting low on good ones, probably due for ordering some new ones.

I tried to get some pics of the differences but the cell couldn't capture it. Wasn't sure where the wife's DSLR camera was, but I'll try to at least get some before/after pics with that on one of the other panels to at least make this thread a bit more interesting for other readers lol.

[Merlin]

When you have deep scratches I prefer to "fill" rather than remove.
For that I'd suggest Glare Pro Polish.

I clean the MF pads with a little Dawn (blue) and wash in the sink.
I also have a Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer

My Fav for microfiber towels is Microfiber Madness
1) BOA (5 Pack) Super Soft Plush Microfiber Towel
1) Microfiber Madness: Yellow Fellow
1) Microfiber Madness: Crazy Pile (16" x 16")



Should get you started...Worth every penny!

[Harley#356]

When you have deep scratches I prefer to "fill" rather than remove.
For that I'd suggest Glare Pro Polish.

I clean the MF pads with a little Dawn (blue) and wash in the sink.
I also have a Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer

My Fav for microfiber towels is Microfiber Madness
1) BOA (5 Pack) Super Soft Plush Microfiber Towel
1) Microfiber Madness: Yellow Fellow
1) Microfiber Madness: Crazy Pile (16" x 16")



Should get you started...Worth every penny!

Okay, new set of questions! lol

1.) Any link for the best place to get glare polish, or just right from the source? (GLARE® Products|Glare Micro Finish|Glare Spider|Glare Vinyl & Leather|Glare Turbo Action Wheel Cleaner|Glare Knock Out|Glare Ultra Wash Soap|Hurricane Products| Buff Pads|Electric Buffers|)

2.) Only get the Glare Polish, not one of their more aggressive products too?

3.) Will really fill the deeper scratches? Since I can't get good pics right now, let me try to describe these marks I'm talking about if it helps. These ones you can't feel with a fingernail, so it appears it's just in the clear, the paint feels smooth as glass, but you can just see the marks in the paint. It looks like the truck was parked next to a bush or something for quite some time and the branches rubbed against the paint. It used to be dull, but after the first round of detailing all the dull is gone, it's reflective and shiny, but those deeper marks are still there from where the branches probably rubbed.

4.) If I get the glare polish, where does it fall into my recipe? D300 w/ red MF, Meg UP with black MF, Meg UW with tan foam,......where does the GPP fall into the sequence, or does it replace the 2nd step? Which pad do I use with it?

5.) In addition to the glare polish, if I did want to add 1 step prior to D300 with red MF for deeper cutting action, what would that combo be? I'll try the glare first, but I wouldn't mind having 1 more step as backup in the detailing arsenal lol.


Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!